Weaknesses of Technocracy
This Movement Is So Over
The technocratic movement was a social movement in the United States during the 1920s and 1930s that advocated a form of society where the welfare of human beings is optimized by means of scientific analysis and widespread use of technology. I think technocracy, as a movement, was attractive as long as there was a growing suspicion that capitalism would not survive the depression - if in fact, it had not caused it. In any event, after World War II evaporated the depression, Technocracy immediately lost its 'bloom'
What are the weaknesses of theocracy and the theocracy movement? In the first place the moment is too obscure to attract much criticism. But knowledgable critics make the following claims regarding technocracy:- There is no possible way to eliminate the scarcity of products in the modern world, especially given the large variety that exists today.
- The theory that labor time could be drastically reduced at current productivity levels seems extremely suspect given the low unemployment rate in modern Western societies.
- The movement lacks organization and a clear path.
- Technology cannot solve all of our problems.
- Naturally scarce things (e.g. gold, diamonds, the Mona Lisa) are impossible to distribute equally.
- Many people believe that human beings are materially selfish and would not be willing to work unless that work gave them some direct material benefit; thus the technate would fail to function due to a shortage of labor.
This post has been post-dated due to continued discussion.
posted by Blogging4Food at 5:30 AM
113 Comments:
I always get a kick out of people that use wikipedia to try and make points without doing any research. It seems to be a disease of the Internet age.
Every body becomes an instant expert by citing someone else that thinks they are an instant expert.
Reality is there has been a huge upsurge in the technocratic movement in just the last 6 month.
It is getting serious attention from some of the premier scientists in the world.
We are the only ones with a clear , and life enhancing program that offers creative change and a chance to survive into the future.
Tell someone that technology can not solve problems that has no running water, unrefrigerated food, and no way to clean up sewage.
Those things are what technology is.
North America`s natural resources are being plundered by the corporatacracy of the world to make money.
If we destroy our resources , which are our true wealth , then we are doomed.
Technocracy offers another path of sustainable abundance.
The movement as said, is growing in numbers and influence.
google technocracy, technocracy movement , and see what tumbles out.
Other areas of the world are using our study course to try to formulate their own technocracy inspired plans. N.E.T. or Network of European Technocrats is a good example of that . A new organization that is trying to organize Europe into technocratic principles.
We are experiencing a kind of a re-awakening in technocracy now. Probably because the need for a real alternative has never been greater as we teeter toward destruction with the present system.
Technocracy is unique . It is American in concept. It is probably the most creative social proposal of all time.
Sunday, 26 November, 2006
To read more on the subject of technocracy ;
www.technocracyvan.ca
www.technocracyinc.org
www.technocracynow.org
The second one is our official website. Our headquarters is in Washington State.
Sunday, 26 November, 2006
We are totally organized, and our path was laid down in the Technocracy Study Course .
This is our blueprint for the future.
It can be down loaded as a free file at , www.technocracynow.org
There is a world wide movement concerning technocracy presently. The Study Course is the plan for North America.
Sunday, 26 November, 2006
Technocracy is a non-political system.
Sunday, 26 November, 2006
There is no answer to question #3. There is no Shining Path. This is a nowheres movement. Unless you consider Feudalism a destiny. Actually you'd have to go back further than that to find any civilization functioning without money. Sievert thinks in a bartering system you wouldn't have classes or class strife or strife between clans. Skip is a nice enough and agreeable dude, when you kiss up to him. But he has cookie dough for brains.
Sunday, 26 November, 2006
Your opinion is just about as valuable as anyone else's Food Blogger , but you betray your still general ignorance as to the subject by your comment here.
Barter is not used in technocracy at all.
It is based on the latest science and is the polar opposite of feudalism , and it is a mystery why you bring that up anyway.
Strife between clans.?
Not sure what that even means.
We are advocating free energy. Free education. Free health care. Free housing. Free everything.
Getting rid of the price system , and going to energy accounting. That automatically gets rid of the caste or class system.
The system presently is predicated on skulduggery, trickery, exploiting human weakness etc.
Our system assures freedom of belief and also freedom from belief.
How is that bad.?
It promotes and incorporates sustainable abundance as a focal point of how to operate society.
It removes control from the corporations and gives it to impartial scientists .
A number of some of the most creative Americans , and all around a group of some of the most creative people that ever lived developed our social proposal , which is based on science.
It use`s whatever the very latest scientific concept is to administer our social proposal.
If you really are interested in Feudalism just watch the price system and our system of governance in the not to distant future. If technology is not implemented , and people are used more and more instead of mechanization , in order to keep people in the present social construct , the level of dysfunction is going to exponentially grow worse and worse.
A class system depends on money for people to have their identity and place in it.
Technocracy is not remotely like that . It is uses a meritocracy system of administration that is not political.
Shining Path.? Ha Ha . You still do not get there is no connection with Communism or Socialism or Capitalism with Technocracy at all.
It has no personality cult aspect as your Shining Path reference was connected with.
It is a scientific system which is humanitarian .
Monday, 27 November, 2006
Another very interesting site which gets into this issue of using people instead of machines , as a way to keep the present system going by making the class system even more pronounced , and even more dysfunctional , is
Communistrobot.com which I have mentioned before. It is a warning about and against Communism by a young Technocrat , who runs a very interesting and enlightening site.
Information in the inside of his site makes many interesting points about technocracy , why it makes sense , and why the present system if it works at all in the future , will be a very real nightmare.
Monday, 27 November, 2006
You also are entitled to your opinion Recidivist.
The only group of people that technocracy does not allow to become members are active Politicians. They may not join as members. We will never run a candidate for office. It is not a political system.
It is made to replace the political system.
As far as religious Zeal , that is a funny comment. Technocracy is not a belief system.
It is science based.
Also as mentioned there is a planet wave happening regarding technocracy at the present time. If you do some minor digging you most likely will be in for a surprise when you see the current grass roots organizations advocating technocratic ideas.
Europe is a hotbed currently also of variations of the American technocracy ideas.
Monday, 27 November, 2006
Do something for World Peace.
Wednesday, 29 November, 2006
Science is an investigative proceedure, not a body of rules from which human rights can be balanced against the needs of civil harmony. I do recall that National Socialism in Germany professed a basis in science, yet as with Technocracy, there is nothing but vagueness as concerns what science is and what results can be considered valid and whose opinion prevails in scientific endeavors. It seems a fertile bed in which to grow tyrants.
How do we determine dispassionate persuit of truth from the will of a tyrant in a lab coat? Perhaps we don't - perhaps this is nothing but another dressed up version of the same old authoritarian war horse we have been trampled by since the beginning.
It's one thing to keep repeating vague mantras about science and technology and another to base the law on M theory and a code of justice on quantum mechanics. In both cases we have nothing but uncertainty. Are you rolling dice with justice?
There seems to be quite an element of faith, quite a bit of trust in men and not laws derived from the will of the governed and there seems to be an enormous faith that a system with more semantic gymnastics than checks and balances will perpetuate itself with no abuse and no slide into tyranny.
Christian Science may be as scientific if not more so than your scientific system and may be less of a religion. Perhaps you could be more specific and more helpful to understanding instead of a constant exhortation to study the scriptures?
By the way, the anti-evolution/ creation science people have been claiming recent upsurges for a hundred years. They claim to be scientific too.
Thursday, 30 November, 2006
"Christian Science"! Exactly the point I was about to make!
Thursday, 30 November, 2006
The study course contains our plan and also explains our approach. Have you read it.?
It is available free to your files at
www.technocracynow.org
Thanks for the interest. I always find it interesting when people try to paste other movements onto technocracy to explain it to themselves, because they don`t understand it, and haven`t taken the time to read our study course .
I suggest that you go to the real thing. Read a few chapters , then your opinion may change.
Thursday, 30 November, 2006
I thought Captain Fogg's suggestions were quite helpful, Sievert. But you seem the be reverting to paterns.
For your benefit, I'll echo Fogg:
Perhaps you could be more specific and more helpful to understanding instead of a constant exhortation to study the scriptures?
Sunday, 03 December, 2006
Technocracy is not a religion , and has no scriptures. We do have a program of implementation however.
It is free . It was published for the first time in 1934 , and is called the Technocracy Study Course.
www.techncracynow.org -Its free.
Is that so hard to understand.?
Pardon me for finding your comment rather boorish .
I realize that this is no instant gratification for you.
Some thought and time may be required.
I don`t feel with all I have written on the subject , including my book , Beyond the Cloak of Deception - Politics , Religion & Economics in the Price System -
that I should also have to spoon feed people as to what technocracy is . Understand.????
This website contains a wealth of information, so why not just go through the posts I have made and learn something here , if reading the two books I mentioned is to much for you.
Are you guys only interested in what you know already. ?
Not very creative is that , is it.?
Monday, 04 December, 2006
Yet, Skip. Convince me why I should open a book of yours, if you tell me up front that you're non-political? As long as you technocrats eschew politics, you don't have a prayer to power.
Or, maybe that's all you have, is a prayer, despite your dissing religion.
Which is a good point: by discounting both organized religion AND politics how can Technocracy come into existence?
Don't tell me - I'm sure it's in your book.
Monday, 04 December, 2006
We move from a political system based on money and a class or caste system , heavily influenced by religion or belief , to a system based on science which only deals with the measurable. No special interests to control things.
We have never ruled out political action , but are not a political party. There are enough people that know and understand our system to possibly implement it.
We are an educational and research group with no will to power ourselves. We have made our plan available though as a public service for future survival.
The clock is ticking though , and as we destroy our real wealth , our natural resource base , time is running out.
We had planned on using Fema as a bridge , it was constructed by technocrats in the 1940`s . It was gutted out by Bush and the Congress.
Our plan was total conscription for the transition period . That is still our implementation plan.
There are many people that understand why Bush and his Political friends got rid of Fema by putting it into Homeland Defense.
Now Bush controls Fema.
A whole lot of people understand the dynamic of what is happening now.
Other ways for a Technate will present themselves.
A total collapse of the Price System is one easy way into a technate.
That will most likely be the scenario.
With our high technology we are very vulnerable in any number of ways for the system , price system to fail.
Monday, 04 December, 2006
We need an economist in here to teach Skip that the scarcity of goods and services is a fact of life, whether one barters or pays for it. Because of that scarcity, no one ever has 'enough' of everything. Consequently goods and services have to be rationed. There are all kinds of ways of rationing, but the use of currency allows for making that rationing rational and transparent. There are a lot of ways our economy can be fine-tuned or tweaked to make the playing field (the market place) more level and fair but it takes political power and will to get that result.
I don't think anything that skip has shown me, make technocracy, technates, or whatever technerds a serious approach to anything.
Monday, 04 December, 2006
Thanks for the brainwashed econ.101 lesson messenger. Ha.
Capitalism is a scarcity based economic system. Any price system using money is.
Scarcity must be maintained to keep the price up and profit up , or didn`t ya know.?
The war in Iraq kept the oil price at about 60 or 70 $ a Bbl. for a while. Then we had an election , and before that election the price plummeted.
Do you see a pattern.?
The war was not about Saddam or about Terrorism ,but about knocking out Iraq`s oil production. Get it.?
If Iraq were pumping oil at the prewar capacity oil would have been about 24 $ a barrel.
If Iraq were to pump out its oil at only 50% of capacity the price of a barrel of oil would be between $ 12 and $ 14 dollars a barrel.
Did you know that gas costs 14 cents a gallon in Argentina.? So ,
Do you get it. ?
Scarcity was maintained . The corporations that run this country made a fortune, and people like you blithely went about their business , completely ignorant of the real dynamic of how this system works. Ha ah.
This would be called brainwashed buddy. You think we just had a free and open election right.? And the Democrats won right.? he he.
You are a cog and half , and you are certainly welcome to your opinions. They have little to do with the facts on the ground though.
Tuesday, 05 December, 2006
Under technocracy, who determines what kind of car I can own or operate, and how many different kinds I can have>
Tuesday, 05 December, 2006
No private property , you would not own a car , but could use one any time you wanted to from a public garage. There would not be a lot of different kinds ,just the very best quality.
Personal possessions and personal space for living is included in our program , as well as food , for free. In fact everything is free , as money is no longer used.
Living space , would also be state of the art , built ecologically , and free.
Most of the present jobs would no longer exist. Banking , Insurance , and so forth , that are paper pushing jobs that are money controlled.
We use an energy accounting system , which is not money , but a resource based way to keep track of what people want , and what is available.
Thankyou for your interest Cooper.
Wednesday, 06 December, 2006
NO private property?
Monday, 11 December, 2006
Technocracy is always and will be the most liberating system ever. I just don't know how you knuckleheads don't get it. Some or most are probably against it because of this psychological defense mechanism embedded in your brain by today's price system society that has brainwashed your ass. Some just like the hierarchy of today are afraid of losing the money and power that they have against the people as well as other things such as investments, private property and the list goes on.
Sic transit gloria mundi - So passes away the glory of the world.
Dennis C.
Saturday, 16 December, 2006
Technocracy is the only logical solution considering our current and growing state of technology.
Rod M
HumanGame
Research Technocracy
Friday, 06 April, 2007
If technocracy has a political future, what's preventing yopu advocates from putting up a candidate? Run for state or national office? Let's see what you got!
Friday, 06 April, 2007
We have never ruled out Political action, but we have ruled out running a candidate for Political office. We could be involved in a Referendum vote to go to a Technocratic system. The only people who can not be members of Technocracy are active political people running for office. We are a non-political system. We are a Science based group that operates on fact within the context of the Technocracy Study Course proposal of Technate design for North America.
Under Technocracy a Political system is no longer used.
To read the Study Course proposal go to
http://www.technocracynow.org/
Beyond The Cloak Of Deception | About
---For further current information about Technocracy go to the official website http://technocracynow.blogspot.com/
Technocracy - The Design of the North American Technate.
For starters read the last two chapters of the Study Course, they contain the design.
-------------
Technocracy can not be 'sold'. It will make sense to some people. Our current system is doomed on the course it is on. Technocracy offers the only real alternative to our Price System when it fails. The other alternative is chaos within a destroyed resource base.
Saturday, 07 April, 2007
Is this really and anti-technocracy blog or an anti-skip blog?
Wednesday, 11 April, 2007
Technocracy , the design of the Technate for North America, is not about personality`s.
The material set up by the Technical Alliance, is for research and education.
People either understand, and 'get' these concepts, or don`t. Sometimes education can be used to instruct ignorant people, and sometimes not.
Propaganda-brainwashing of abstract belief systems rule the day, and rule our society currently.
That is a pity because it does not need to be that way.
As said Technocracy can not be 'sold'.
If just 1 or 2 key people understand the underlying concepts and are able to present the material and have the resources and leadership to advance it, then all is well.
As our system deteriorates Technocracy information will become more well known again. After-all what is being done now, is destructive and demeaning to any and all humans.
Technocracy offers a real alternative. All well thought out, and workable.
Thursday, 12 April, 2007
The following information should answer some questions for those interested in Technocracy ideas. Thank you friends for reading through our material. Please help to make the general public aware of these concepts.
The Scientific, Technological Design for the Economy of North America
Provides for:
* Complete economic security for every man, woman, and child from birth to death;
* Complete health care;
* Modern, energy-efficient housing for all;
* Education to the full extent of each individual's ability;
* Viable mass transit;
* Employment for all who are able to work and care for those who cannot; and
* Careful stewardship of the Continent's natural resources and environment.
Background
As early as the winter of 1918-19, it became obvious to a group of outstanding scientists, engineers, and economists that technology was displacing man-hours of labor, leading to increased unemployment and lack of purchasing power. The group included Howard Scott, chief engineer; Frederick Ackerman, architect; Carl L. Alsberg, chemist; Allen Carpenter, M.D.; Stuart Chase, C.P.A.; L.K. Comstock, electrical engineer; Alice Barrows Fernandez, educator; Bassett Jones, electrical engineer; Benton Mackaye, forester; Leland Olds, statistician; Charles P. Steinmetz, electrical engineer; Richard C. Tolman, physicist; John Carol Vaughn, M.D.; Thorstein Veblen, educator; Charles H. Whitaker, housing expert; and Sullivan W. Jones, secretary.
Calling themselves the Technical Alliance, they embarked upon a survey of the energy and physical resources of the North American Continent. After fourteen years of intensive study, they were able to determine that North America had the resources, both physical and energy, and the know-how, to produce an abundance for all of its citizens. What is lacked was a viable method to distribute the abundance. This inability to distribute abundance had led to a depression in 1921, the unwise introduction of installment buying in the 1920s. the stock market crash of 1929, and the Great Depression.
The Technical Alliance determined that it was the efforts to preserve the Price System, a system which had functioned, albeit imperfectly, during the centuries of scarcity, that had led to the denouement of the 30s. They saw that a system that had grown out of conditions of scarcity could not function adequately to distribute abundance.
Requirements to be met
A system which could distribute abundance and satisfy the conditions listed above would need these features:
1. It must register continuously the energy converted in the total day-to-day operation of the Continent, both plant construction and maintenance, as well as the energy converted in the production of goods and services for personal consumption by the population.
2. By registering the energy converted, it would be possible to maintain a continuous inventory and to balance production with consumption, eliminating both scarcity of any one commodity and unnecessary resource depletion due to overproduction of some other.
3. This inventory could provide information as to the type of goods and services produced, where and how much had been used in order to give replacement information, and could, if desired, identify the user.
4. It must distribute goods and services to every member of the population, giving each individual citizen the widest possible choice in consuming his share of the Continental physical wealth.
5. It must guarantee that each individual's consuming power be his, or hers, alone, much as a Social Security number is assigned to each individual, and is not to be transferred to anyone else.
What would be the means of distribution?
On each of these counts, money fails to meet the requirement for distributing abundance.
1. It is not a measure of energy converted, or of production or consumption of goods and services.
2. It can be transferred from one person to another, a fact which could deprive some citizens of their share of abundance, besides making fraud and bribery possible.
3. It can be stashed away. In this connection it must be noted that any obstruction in a flow line, even at the consuming end, will eventually shut the line down; hence, money will not keep production moving evenly.
On all counts, money does not meet the requirements of a medium of distribution of abundance.
The mechanism that does meet the requirements is the energy degraded in the production of goods and services. This energy loss constitutes the physical cost of production and can be stated in units of work (ergs or kwh) or in units of heat (kg calories of Btus). We can therefore measure quite accurately the energy lost in any given industrial process, as well as the total physical cost of operating the Continent.
After subtracting the energy required to operate the Continent as a whole – new plant and maintenance thereof, roads, housing, hospitals, schools, local transport, continental transport, communications, education, child care, and maintenance of public institutions – the remainder would be shared equally by all adult citizens in the form of personal energy credits. In the U.S. alone, in 1992, more than 81 quadrillion Btus were consumed, with 62 quadrillion being used for overall operating, leaving 19 quadrillion to be consumed by the personal needs of the population. That should supply every North American with their favorite personal items, all else being supplied as a right of citizenship.
Keep in mind: to be consumed. Since there is a definite limit to the amount of goods and services one individual can consume, it is both reasonable and efficient to issue equal numbers of personal energy units to each adult, male and female alike. It is anticipated that the number will be greater than anyone can reasonably use before the units expire, at which time new units would be issued. These energy credits would be usable only by the person to whom they are issued; no one else could "cash" them. Since everyone would have their own plentiful supply, there would be no point in transferring credits to any other person – or stealing someone else's!
How will society be organized in a "technate"?
First, realize that it will take time, to overcome the thought-patterns and habits that have been the norm in the Price System. The urge to acquire things in order to gain recognition could give way to a desire to excel in one's chosen field of endeavor. Whole new complexes of energy-efficient housing interspersed with green areas and local cultural facilities must take the place of the millions of units of substandard housing and the decaying infrastructure which exist today. Taxes and monetary debt will be unknown. Crimes involving property – 95% of all crime – will no longer be a problem. Disparity between rich and poor will vanish and, with it, eventually, racism, sexism, classism, ageism – most of today's troubles.
Can we do a global makeover? No. To bite off more than we can chew is a sure prescription for failure. When things are running smoothly in North America, then we can invite people from other countries to come and observe what can be adapted to their situation.
After the period of transition is over, the children born into the Technate will enjoy lifetime economic security and education to age 25, as a right of citizenship. During the ages 12 to 25 education period, they will choose the path best suited to their talents for their life's work – a work life that will last probably 20 years of a mere 12 hours a week of work, with 78 days continuous vacation each year. At about age 45 then, they will retire at full compensation, free to travel, enjoy a hobby, study, whatever. This calculation of work is all that is needed to operate a Technate. Our current Price System keeps people busy doing pointless things. A class/caste system is thus maintained.
The actual operation of the Technate will continue as society operates today – those with the expertise in the various lines of industry and the professions will carry on all necessary functions. We will be well rid of political interference and the financial substructure, neither of which contributes one iota to the physical operation of the Continent. Those people who are currently engaged in politics or finance will either retire, or, if under 45, will find a line of work suited to them.
In order to operate a mechanism as complex as an entire Continent, the needed functions must be divided into manageable units. There will be industrial sequences (agriculture, manufacturing, mining, etc.) service sequences (education, medicine, etc.) and research sequences. Each sequence will have its own director chosen from among its most capable personnel by his or her peers. These sequence directors will together form an advisory body, similar to the U.S. President's Cabinet, which will advise the Continental Director, chosen from among the sequence directors by his or her peers, on matters of policy. Through such a vertical alignment, each person will be heard, making possible the most completely efficient society ever devised.
Any desirable features of societal organization not specifically mentioned here, for lack of space, must be assumed to be included at the most optimum level. In fact, the increasing population, coupled with the flagrant depletion of resources which has occurred as a result of 20th century Price System excesses, makes it imperative that Technocracy's Design, with its emphasis on balancing production with consumption in order to conserve natural resources, its insistence that only goods of optimum quality be manufactured for the same reason – in order to conserve natural resources, its equalizing of consuming power and opportunity in order to avoid the chaos which looms if we continue on our present course, be adopted as soon as possible.
Tuesday, 24 April, 2007
Testing 1-2-3
Friday, 27 April, 2007
Well nobody will ever convince Skip, but for my part, the proposition that money and private property are the roots of evil does not necessarily lead to the substitution of "credits" for it nor the substitution of communial property for private property. Whether or not the comparison with Marxism is valid, it's compelling and it seems to me that both these schemes depend on the essential fairness, altruism, honesty and incorruptibility of all involved from top to bottom.
What substitute does it offer for human nature?
If the question of exploitation can be solved by eliminating property and cash, why does it exist so universally in the animal kingdom?
I see no reason why technocracy should not fail in precisely the same way as all other utopian schemes, both religious and secular have, because humans are not all those things the system would require nor do I see it as having any checks and balances against corruption and misuse. Perhaps such things are there, buried in the cimmerian forest of verbiage one downloads, but I don't see it and apparently nobody has drummed up enough enthusiasm to try it on some remote island or other place to see if science can do away with my desire to have a nicer car than the one in the motor pool; to see if it wouldn't require a police state to make sure everyone agrees with their "Technocratically" appointed status in life.
certainly that technocratic spirit hasn't prevented old Skip from nasty behavior on various forums where people get tired of the constant sales pitch. Perhaps I should call the technocops?
The proof of this thing can only be in doing it, but since it is at the moment confined to a handful of zealots, it would behoove them to create their eden out in the wilderness and let us all marvel at it.
Sunday, 06 May, 2007
Thanks for the lame post Fog. You betray your ignorance as usual. For someone who knows virtually nothing, and has not read our material, you certainly have 'grand' ideas.
Monday, 07 May, 2007
Skip, you are SO BUSTED by Capt. Fogg, that I'm ready to promote him in rank to General or Admiral. (He gets to choose!) This is the definitive smack-down for you. Based upon your track record, I do not expect you can refute and recover.
Tuesday, 08 May, 2007
Well that is an odd statement food blogger. Fog is a stooge for Price System values. His site is Political bullshit only.
He is disgruntled because I have beaten him in several debates.
He is a second tier thinker only, and I am being kind at that.
'why does exploitation exist in the animal kingdom' he asks ?
And what does that have to do with property and cash ?
Ok, so why engage the Clown with questions and answers like that.
I would say that General frog is a first class idiot. Am I clear ?
---------------
We have just added a new archive of older material to the Techinc site, and we are in the process of putting up our own server which will put up a new official website. The archive is here, http://technocracynow.blogspot.com/
Technocracy - The Design of the North American Technate.
for now.
By the way I just posted some archive material on the David Octavius site. Check it out, some great stuff from the distant past, and some newer Technocracy material also.
Tuesday, 08 May, 2007
Just saw your blog, Skip. You have put out. Some of the fonts in that table could be spruced up in color to make them more readable. I'll spare you any comments about the contents, of course.
Wednesday, 06 June, 2007
I see above that your ugly style of writing (without constructing paragraphs) has not improved, though.
Wednesday, 06 June, 2007
It may seem ugly, but it is designed to be effective.
It may be your browser that is not reading the archive stuff well.
Wednesday, 06 June, 2007
Perhaps.
Monday, 11 June, 2007
Blogging4Food and Skip: awesome discussion. Thanks for the education. Too bad I can't respond with more depth: I'm at work.
Monday, 29 October, 2007
Well, this shit is just retarded.
I am not a technocrat or a member but I have read the material.
I will now refute the fogg.
Technocracy does not require or advocate that human nature should be changed at all.
The reason for energy credits is that money is unable to distribute an abundance.
Animals compete for resources they need for survival. A technocracy is the only system capable of providing an abundance of these resources, rendering such competetion unecessary.
Well, I can't have a flying car today. I guess it must be because of the police state, right? Oh. It's because they just don't make flying cars, do they? You see, that's how it would work in a technocracy. Certain things just wouldn't be made, but the things that would be made would be of the highest possible quality and durability. No police state is necessary, in fact a technocracy is probably the furthest thing possible from a police state. The only thing being controlled is the technology. People are free to do whatever they want. With an abundance of resources 95% of crime would be eliminated, and there would still be a police force to deal with the remaining crime, which would be of a pathological nature.
You are quite an uninformed dolt. You really should read at least some of the source material before you make such a lame attempt to "refute" it.
Technocracy is applicable to any size geographic area but it will not have the same results. Some areas are lacking in resources, technological base, or trained personell. The requirements are:
1. sufficient technology and machinery
2. sufficient resources
3. sufficient trained personal to operate the machinery
All 3 exist on the North American continent.
So, you really wouldn't be able to do it on an island. If you had the slightest understanding you would know that.
Do your homework.
M. King Hubbert - originator of peak oil theory, which you will also need to educate yourself about.
Wednesday, 05 December, 2007
Beyond the MYTH of MONEY and POLITICS is REALITY and Reality is where we will find our SANITY for solving our most complex problems. The North American Technate is already HERE. Though, is not operating up to optimum functioning capacity because we allow our myths to interfere with all that we know about the physical laws of NATURE.
Technocracy is the only viable alternative. Plain and simple stupid.
Friday, 25 January, 2008
Patrick you are confused and not really representing Technocracy with statement like...
"The reason for energy credits is that money is unable to distribute an abundance."
Energy credits ?
No such thing. Dumb statement on your part. There are no credits or debits in Energy Accounting.
Saturday, 02 February, 2008
If there's no private property and no individuals compete to control the means of production, why would anything be produced efficiency or with quality in mind? Who enforces it?
Why would joe bob work harder, better to provide the product/service when he knows he has no incentive to do so? He's already going to be taken care of, and there's no competition in the system. It's all controlled by some omnipotent government authority.
There'd be no compelling reason, other than sheer goodwill, to produce varied, high quality products, even if we assumed the premise that there really as an abundance, which there isn't.
Saturday, 31 May, 2008
Well said, Technocrat! The only competition would be to become a member of the "omnipotent government authority"!
Saturday, 31 May, 2008
Origin of the Political/Price System TNAT TheNorthAmericanTechnate
The current system is doomed for a number of reasons. Work as thought out by you is done using mechanical energy now. The theory of labor of Adam Smith econo. 101 is still believed though by the average Dingus Erectus who is brainwashed with opinions about things.
Technate - An Idea For Now Stephen L. Doll.
If you think this system now is so good.. you are dreaming. The Price System is a dead end.
The American Political Price System TNAT info.
Learn a little of how your government works.
The North American Technate TNAT
It obvious that you are ignorant or stupid with your take on things.
Saturday, 31 May, 2008
I am currently writing a research project on Technocracy, and just want to thank everyone here for an informative debate, although there is a surprising amount of venom from both parties. I can understand that Skip Sievert would be upset by some of the comments here however, that seem to be unconstructive and spiteful attacks with no real argument or point.
I am disappointed at Skip's response to Capt. Fogg's point however, as I think Fogg brought up a valid point that in fact I was hoping to ask myself. It is true that everyone in a technate will have what they require, but there is a human desire for superficial betterment and competition, based on sex. Some uneducated people of course let basic instincts and emotions overrun them and turn this into domestic violence or crime, but humans will always struggle for power over eachother. I personally believe that this is an aspect of the human psyche that can be overcome in a technate, because of the excellent health system, people who have suffered decades of consumerist propaganda encouraging individualism and ruthless competition will be able to find an environment of understanding and rehabilitation into a new mindset. This will take time however. I also believe that the requirement of work only existing between the ages of 25 and 45 offers the opportunity for an extended period of (free and high quality) education up to 25, which in my opinion will be a very strong counter to the development of the criminal mindset.
Yes, perhaps you can tell, I am a supporter of technocracy. But I would like to ask Skip what he thought of this social aspect, and how a technate might account for the desire of one man to be in possession of items that display his superior 'sex status' to all those around?
Sunday, 15 June, 2008
As said Fogg is a scold and dumbed down participant who does not bother to understand the subject.
That is typical on the internet.
The North American Technate TNAT
Money-history&energy accounting.
How is it that people take such a dim view of other humans ?
How is it that many think that mankind is doomed to the system developed in Sumeria by the Babylonians... contract society based on class and special interest?
How is it that people incline toward making me something special that is somehow connected to this information?
I am a messenger and am only trying to get the ideas across that were presented by the Technical Alliance.
I could care less whether I am liked for what ever reason.
Every one has something to do that they feel is important.
I am doing this as a public service.
Other wise there is no connection between myself and the information.
I do suggest that the file above on Money and History and Energy Accounting ... which I wrote.. be looked at very carefully and looked at from a broad perspective.
I am very proud of that file.
As for an innate meanness and cruelness or compulsion for dominance in humans.... I think not.
We must cooperate now if we want to survive.
While humans can ''buy'' as much sex as they care for.... and that is one of the main features of a Price System... no matter how ugly or stupid or ignorant you are you can ''buy sex''..... that may not be a good enough reason to keep the current system which is destined to destroy us if we stick with it.
Right now the clock is ticking to the destruction.
Sunday, 15 June, 2008
Thank you for your response skip
Monday, 16 June, 2008
How positions are filled in a Technocratic society
There is not a Technical and a Democratic division in the Technate design for North America as regards operation of the Technate except in the sense of how a Technate would put people in positions of administration.
The Continental Director in a Technate is chosen from among the Sequence Directors by those Directors by the use of a ballot.
How positions are filled in a Technocratic society :
Positions are filled based on the proven method of nomination from below and appointment from above. For example, if a position were vacated for whatever reason, then the people immediately below that position would nominate candidates from among their ranks for the position.
Then the managers from the rank above the position would choose from those candidates the person most qualified for the job.
This is the method that is most often used in the technical portions of present organizations, and is based on competence.
Competence of the person is determined by the consistent operation of the technology involved.
If such machinery should fail to operate within acceptable parameters, then the person responsible would be quickly removed and replaced with someone who could perform the job adequately.
The only exception to this method is the position of Continental Director, only because there is no one higher.
This Director position is selected from the members of the Continental Board of Directors or Sequence Directors, for it is they who best know who among them is most capable of handling the job.
A Continental Director could also be recalled by the Sequence Directors if their performance deemed it so.
Monday, 16 June, 2008
Good one, Dandalf! I concur.
I ... want to thank everyone here for an informative debate, although there is a surprising amount of venom from both parties.
Monday, 16 June, 2008
Stella...
Would you like a back rub?
Monday, 16 June, 2008
On point 5, I don't think technocracy ever advocated the equal distribution of EVERYTHING. There are many things that humans think that are valuable that cannot be evenly distributed. Not everyone can have a penthouse apartment, for example.
Technocracy does advocate the equal distribution of energy (in the form of credits).
Now, the way I see it, the inability to evenly distribute these things answers the objection brought up by dandalf. While everyone will receive the same energy credits, I don't see anything wrong with using non-monetary (i.e. things other than energy credits) as rewards for hard work and dedication.
Tuesday, 23 September, 2008
In case you did not know... there is no such thing in the Technate plan as Energy ''credits''. If you have credit then you have ''debit''... and this plan is not a monetary system... or a reward and punishment system.
There are energy units. The system is an accounting system only.
So I assume you are on sites that are bullshit sites such as NET or TechCa. Mostly they are run by ego mongers... that never did understand the information, and have added dumbed down crap to it.
Also... from your comment about ''working hard'' it is pretty apparent also that you are clueless as to any of the actual ideas 'Joshua'.
This is not a serious site (here) by the way. It was started by someone that was and is clueless as to the ideas... and probably was started mostly as a joke attack site... in case you didn't know.
Tuesday, 23 September, 2008
skip, the system always involved credits (an increase in the energy available for one person) and debits (a decrease in the energy available for a person). These credits would be equally distributed among the populace (so they are not used as rewards nor punishments). It is the only way enough energy can be produced. If there was no limit on the amount of energy that each person could utilise, the populace would assuredly utilise far more than could be produced.
And Skip, explain to me how people in a technate don't have to work at all? Because if work has to be done, then there will be people working hard and people not working hard.
Thursday, 25 September, 2008
I would be happy to explain it to you but I generally do not get into long windy conversations on topics with people that obviously do not know their ass's from a hole in the ground as to the subject in discussion.
Is that clear for you?
Here is some basic information... you may look at... although it appears you are already a self styled expert... although you do not know shit on the subject. Have a nice day.
YouTube - TBonePickensetc's Channel Technate videos.
Thursday, 25 September, 2008
Just came across this blog. I'm still laughing about it. Come on skip, be a bit more merciful. Some folk will take a little longer to see the light. As it was stated, it will take time for people to adapt to the system as does understanding the theory.
Technocrat said "Why would joe bob work harder, better to provide the product/service when he knows he has no incentive to do so? He's already going to be taken care of, and there's no competition in the system"
The system may seem a little to abstract for some but it would turn our priorities upside down.
To understand it better the term "work" needs redefining. It has far too many negative connotations, and rightly so in our current price system. So think of the term voluntary instead. If you knew, that by working, for the good of the community at large, for just a few hours a week, it would ensure a good quality of life for your family, what fool wouldn't.
As for competition, ever heard of "pride".
Tuesday, 07 October, 2008
''''Anon. The system may seem a little to abstract for some but it would turn our priorities upside down.
To understand it better the term "work" needs redefining. It has far too many negative connotations, and rightly so in our current price system. So think of the term voluntary instead. If you knew, that by working, for the good of the community at large, for just a few hours a week, it would ensure a good quality of life for your family, what fool wouldn't.
As for competition, ever heard of "pride".''''
Thanks for your version of morality and ethics, Anon, and how to ''make people think'' and what they should feel pride about. No doubt you ascribe to a host of sociological nonsense... that has nothing to do with the concepts of Technocracy... You may believe that you are on another site that caters to people control issues. Like the idiot one in Canada or the other idiot one in Sweden.
The technate design is secular and humanitarian... and protects people from people like you... who want to Neuro linguistically ... program people how to think... and how to be a ''good'' person.
In other words... you sound clueless.
Most people that can not figure out the design after it is explained to them are either ignorant or stupid.
Tuesday, 07 October, 2008
Technocracy Technate forum discussion and Technocracy radio link
Technocracy Technate :: Index
Saturday, 18 October, 2008
Thanks, Tech Ref, for the link to this other site. I'll bring myself to watch it from time to time. Maybe it will pleasantly surprise me with adherents who are not so oft-putting as Skipper, here.
Saturday, 18 October, 2008
Skip, I really admire your patience to go through all of this for people who consider a three hundred pages long program written in plain modern day english to be as unapproachable as "the scriptures".... Really, ur fkin zen
Sunday, 23 November, 2008
Ha. Thanks.
A frequent criticism made of the scientific method is that it cannot accommodate anything that has not been proved. The argument then points out that many things thought to be impossible in the past are now everyday realities. This criticism is based on a misinterpretation of the scientific method. When a hypothesis passes the test it is adopted as a theory it correctly explains a range of phenomena it can, at any time, be falsified by new experimental evidence. When exploring a new set or phenomena scientists do use existing theories but, since this is a new area of investigation, it is always kept in mind that the old theories might fail to explain the new experiments and observations. In this case new hypotheses are devised and tested until a new theory emerges.
There are many types of ``pseudo-scientific'' theories which wrap themselves in a mantle of apparent experimental evidence but that, when examined closely, are nothing but statements of faith. The argument [*], cited by some creationists, that science is just another kind of faith is a philosophic stance which ignores the trans-cultural nature of science. Science's theory of gravity explains why both creationists and scientists don't float off the earth. All you have to do is jump to verify this theory - no leap of faith required.
Sunday, 23 November, 2008
There is a rise in the numbers of people, who, understanding that our monetary system is beginning to dysfunction severely, dragging the society in the decadence we all see becoming, are looking for a way out. Technocracy is indeed a viable, humanitarian, secular, alternative, that can be applied today, and can today solve allot of the issues that we are all concerned with. Yet as is apparent people are not ready to accept technocracy because in the fast information age of the internet, a 300 page document is like reading the Tibetan book of the dead, the dead sea scrolls and the old testament all rolled up in one. What I mean to say is that in order to promote non mainstream information, the people must be able to do their own reading, unfortunately what's happening today is that a three paragraph long summary on socialism is enough for the average e-user to form an opinion about the whole system. Well People the blunt truth is that in order to get to know ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING like a political system at least, you need to do allot of READING, its the only way I'm afraid. Yet the internet is littered with tons of people who participate in forums, trying to convince about their educated opinions, without ever having any prior true understanding of the subject their debating, causing a "rat in the wheel" phenomena. We are engaging in meaningless conversations, using unsupported arguments, from which of course nothing ever comes out of.
And then in the midst of the confusion someone comes with a good idea, an alleged (at least) viable alternative, and instead of taking four-five hours from our time to check the info so that we may ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, we choose to simply debunk it from the beginning, just because thats what we're here to do. It is truly unbelievable that in a website, designed to speak against technocracy, NOBODY, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE took the time to see exactly what he is trying to debunk. The answers to the "Weaknesses of Technocracy" are very adequately answered in the Study Course, a document easy to understand and unlike the ..."scriptures" straight forward in its meaning, unambiguous and to the point.
Monday, 24 November, 2008
Technocracy technate forum
Yes... funny how that is the case. People do have a tendency to follow their noses to information they think they already know without actually looking for facts about something.
As the crises now faces with resource destruction and the backward market approach of money politics worsens... more thought may go into a real alternative system.
Monday, 24 November, 2008
Hi guys, great discussion here. I'm two days into learning about Technocracy and it would seem I am already ahead of Food Blogger in terms of understanding of the subject (lol), but I do still have some questions. I found this site looking for some sort of official Technocracy forum, but I couldn't find one. Skip, do you know of one?
One thing though, Skip. I found your resorting to name-calling and belittlement a little off-putting. Although, since you aren't an official spokesperson for Technocracy Inc., I guess it doesn't really matter. Just thought you should know your tactics perhaps aren't the best tools to use to convince people, and a more level-headed approach would be more productive. Given that you have so much knowledge about Technocracy, I would hate to see it fall on deaf ears simply because you're rubbing people the wrong way :)
Friday, 13 March, 2009
I really hate Progressive Thinking... so called liberals, mostly they are the scum of the earth.
Pretty much the other extreme of Libertarian Anarcho Capitalists. Mostly poor excuses for human haters, and brainwashed riff raff, and really it is a poor mans/richmans fascism.
If your interested in these ideas then do something except complain about personalities.
Friday, 13 March, 2009
Yeah, StreetCar. Skip is the worst representative possible.
Friday, 13 March, 2009
I really hate Progressive Thinking, so called liberals, mostly they are the scum of the earth. (Vigilante said, I am a brainwashed robot..)
Progressive liberals that are ignorant of history and soldiers for the status quo are a little less than comical.
Pretty much the other extreme of Libertarian Anarcho/Capitalists on the surface, but actually similar. Mostly poor excuses for human haters, and brainwashed riff raff, and really it is, a poor mans/richmans fascism.
If your interested in these ideas then do something except complain about personalities.
Saturday, 14 March, 2009
What...? I wasn't complaining. I was providing constructive criticism.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
Here is some constructive criticism also.... drop dead, there are already enough trolls out there trashing people.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
I think you're thinking of yourself, unfortunately.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
Listen you trashy troll... just go away to troll city. I you want to do any thing real, stick with the facts... unless you are a Hollywood Access reporter... or work for People magazine.
Technocracy ideas are not about Howard Scott.... or M. King Hubbert though they are notable. Bringing up personality issues is a dead give away that you are not interested in the material ... but are interested in the most petty of bullshit.
Have a nice day, Mr. Troll.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
Petty bullshit? I think you're forgetting that people are human, not machine. Most won't care to read a 70+ page document just so they know what we're arguing about here. Not everyone is a scientist like you or me. Most will look at personalities first, and sometimes only personalities. Who would want to join a group filled with hateful people?
Don't care about the material? I've been reading the articles and the study guide every moment of my spare time since I found out about technocracy nearly a week ago. Your ability to jump to conclusions shows just how little you know about the unpredictability of human beings. And that doesn't reflect well on Technocracy.
I can look past this, but many others may not..
Monday, 16 March, 2009
And that doesn't reflect well on Technocracy.
I can look past this, but many others may not..
You sound like a first class jerk... we probably do not need your help anyway.
You desire to personalize information into an oligarchy aspect apparently....
'''''''''''''Most won't care to read a 70+ page document just so they know what we're arguing about here.''''''''''' quote recent troll
Besides you idiot... if you are reading the Study Guide... you are reading the wrong thing... that is the only really bad info put out by TechInc.
Read the Technocracy Study Course, it is over 300 pages... so don't stumble as you think you are patting yourself on the back.
And learn how to stop beating dead horses while you are at it.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
Here is a link that goes to a series of 7 videos that give a simple explanation of the Technocracy Technate design. These videos were done by Arvid Pederson around 1980.YouTube - TBonePickensetc's Channel Technate videos.
Monday, 16 March, 2009
I've already watched those videos. Thanks, anon.
Other anon,
Can you link me to the study course? Or do I have to order it?
Thanks
Monday, 16 March, 2009
Nevermind. Found it: http://www.archive.org/details/TechnocracyStudyCourseUnabridged
Monday, 16 March, 2009
The Technate design is located in the last two chapters... the design chapters, of the Technocracy Study Course Technocracy Study Course - excerpted design chapters and links to the complete copy.
There are two versions... one is abridged and cuts off the back area of the book. It is also a closed copy Pdf. That version is not suggested.
Currently the TNAT scan is the only actual scan of the entire book... so this is the suggested reading. It is listed at TechInc Washington currently as Study Guide 2 as a download, which is confusing... however this is the TNAT scan (The North American Technate) scan available through TNAT and through TechInc Washington, and several other places now.
This is a big bulky file, which no doubt will be made smaller in time... after capturing it make a copy and give it to others that are interested.
As the basis of these ideas are thermodynamics and science the material has not really aged... or marginally. Data is different.
The group was always an educational and research group... the Technical Alliance... it was never a revolutionary group.
Since the time period has caught up with us once again, and the mass media can be made aware of us again ... every ones help is needed currently to inform people about this actual viable alternative.
As there is no shortage of 'fake' alternative as always, and the technate information is very different than other approaches, our society is ticking closer to a crashing chaos of Price System destruction, and this information informs the public of real alternative ideas.
For better or worse as the destruction of the closed system environment we live in accelerates... and the scramble for what resources are left intensifies... huge change is coming.
Tuesday, 17 March, 2009
One would think that Technocracy advocates would have some penetrating and self-promoting criticisms to make in the wake of our world-wide credit crisis. But I don't hear squat from them.
Saturday, 09 May, 2009
''''''''''''One would think that Technocracy advocates would have some penetrating and self-promoting criticisms to make in the wake of our world-wide credit crisis. But I don't hear squat from them.'''''''''''
Thats because you are out of the loop and not really interested or just interested in trolling, like your last comment.
If you were at all interested you could find all of our new information.
Saturday, 09 May, 2009
Yeah, I've been wondering about the lack of action from TechInc myself but if you check out the www.technocracy.ca forums you'll see that they have very few members and are no longer even much of an educational organization. All they do is keep the material available to the public. I've been more active in the NET (Network of European Technocrats) community since they seem to be pretty active themselves, but even they don't seem to be taking this opportunity to make a move: www.technocracynet.eu
Saturday, 09 May, 2009
For one thing TechCa is not really connected to the actual information.
NET is 3 or 4 people that blog in an attempt to gain notability... and they are really not connected to the actual Technocracy technate information.
Below is an information site. technocracytechnate.org, this one is new but connects to lots of media, new Utube material, and files of documents new and old.
HomeBut... there is a lot going on snarky comments aside by anti technocrats aside.
Saturday, 09 May, 2009
Here is some important information:
-Skip Sievert has been banned from the official organization Technocracy, Inc. I'm unclear what the reason was, but I think it had something to do with his dogmatic beliefs regarding religion (specifically, his belief that religion should be banned).
-The official website of Tech, Inc. is www.technocracy.org
-For those wishing to learn more about Technocracy, the Study Course is freely available online
-Skip has an ongoing feud with a person who goes by the alias Kolzene, for reasons which are unclear to me. Kolzene is the moderator of www.technocracy.ca. Many members and other people closely connected to the movement have contributed to this site so it is a good source of information.
-Skip seems to think his interpretation of technocracy is the only valid one, and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong. He considers himself the one true source of Technocracy information. This is funny since he has been banned as I have already mentioned. His views do not represent the views of Tech, Inc. in any way.
-Kolzene is probably the single biggest contributor of original material to the Technocracy movement in recent years. Skip seems to reject anything that has been produced after 1930. He even had an ongoing argument with other members over the validity of the Urbanates concept, which was written back in the 50s!
-The biggest problem with skip is that he seems to not understand the difference between what is subjective and what is objective. Scientific method can only handle objective problems, which is why democracy would still be a feature of any Technate. Hell, the process of appointment from above and selection from below is still somewhat democratic because the people VOTE on candidates who they think would be fit for the job, and then from those candidates a person is chosen from those above to fill the position.
-Network of European Technocrats is unrelated to Tech, Inc. They want to have a Technocracy while scrapping the entire katascopic foundation. The system they are proposing is very different from what Tech, Inc. proposes and is intended for Europe only.
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
Patrick above is a troll that is promoting a person named Kolzene or Bill Desjardines and his website TechCa... which is a dumbed down version of Technocracy technate ideas. Kolzene claims to be a Wiccan or witch. He graduated in a program and is an advocate for a process known as Neuro Linguistic Programming.
Patrick is one of his subjects. Deprogramming is suggested. Get help Patrick... you are in a very limited cult. Kolzene is the former webmaster of TechInc... when they figured out that he was trying to establish a personality cult around himself he was relieved of duties... and the TechInc site has improved a fair amount since then.
Nuero Linguistic Programming is a disgusting thing... and TechCa relies on it. NET is a product of TechCa.
That site (TechCa) is not connected in any way to actual Technocracy technate concepts or ideas.
Here is some basic information and some connectors to actual Technocracy technate information.
YouTube - TBonePickensetc's Channel Technate videos.
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
Here are some actual connectors for any serious people that are interested in these ideas.
Links to articles, essays, science information, YouTube presentations and more. and Technocracy Technate Web Site and Forum
and here is a very basic piece of Technocracy technate information: a science paper by M. King Hubbert http://www.technocracy.org/man%20hours%20and%20distribution.htm
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
Bill left Tech, Inc. voluntarily.
I will let Skip's actions speak for themselves, as I have neither the time nor the inclination to get into another pointless argument.
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
The last thing I will say is that "Technocracy Technate" is a very redundant and stupid term.
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
Maybe you feel that way because you are mostly an ignorant person or troll that is obsessed with avatar names as being 'real', and the best you can do is spam a very poorly done site with very limited creative aspects that is not really connected.
Here is your bio. on TechCA. and as suggested you might wish to get help as to deprogramming.
You are a victim of brainwashing.
Patrick:
technocracy.ca/index.php
Austin, TX
Occupation: college student
Interests: Technocracy, Urban Planning, Sociology
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
i know what neuro linguistic programming is and so far i have not witnessed any from kolzene. Besides, i dont think its possible to perform online...
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
Kolzene's Schools
GRANT MACEWAN COLLEGE
Edmonton, Canada
Graduated: 2001
Student status: Alumni
Degree: Other
Major: Neuro Linguistic Programming
2000 to 2001
Perform online?
The whole point is to brainwash people with certain information whether true or not.
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
No, that's not what neuro-linguistic programming is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming#Techniques
Those techniques would be much harder to pull off online. NLP doesn't have to do with misinformation.
Plus, if there are degrees for it I don't really see how you can call the discipline "disgusting"
Saturday, 13 June, 2009
streetCat, it's better to not feed the troll.
Sunday, 14 June, 2009
N.L.P.?
There are several false or questionable assumptions upon which NLP is based.
The beliefs about the unconscious mind, hypnosis and the ability to influence people by appealing directly to the subconscious mind are unsubstantiated and anti intellectual in general.
All the scientific evidence which exists on such things indicates that what NLP claims is not true. You cannot learn to "speak directly to the unconscious mind" as Erickson and NLP claim, except in the most obvious way of using the power of suggestion (brainwashing techniques or hypnosis).
That is the way Kolzene uses it, consciously or not on his site, so the posters here are not aware of what those techniques do.
Kolzene 'made up' a whole 'referendum voting on democracy of morality, ethics, and aesthetic values' 'in your own home' thing, that would then translate into some kind of contract law in a technate... which is NOT connected even remotely, to Technocracy concepts which preclude special interest groups (voting/democracy), and then injected all that into his site TechCa. thus creating merely a personality cult for his ideas about 'democracy referendum voting'.
The NET people originally were brainwashed then with those ideas and also the more naive people that look around for information on technocracy concepts and may be trapped by their own small mindedness and lack of regard for the actual ideas.
A simple reading of the document History and Purpose of Technocracy by Howard Scott would clear all that up, or reading the Study Course, or other very basic literature on the subject from the actual TechInc site.
The whole concept of technocracy does not include democracy voting for a reason. To protect people from special interest groups. So, the whole dual system of technate for technical and democracy for laws and value judgments created by Kolzene... is to put it mildly... bullshit. A technate is a complete system. There is no dual aspect, it does not contain a Judiciary for laws and contracts.
Obvious?
Apparently not for some of the posters on TechCA. Comical I guess.
NLP claims that its experts have studied the thinking of great minds and the behavior patterns of successful people and have extracted models of how they work. "From these models, techniques for quickly and effectively changing thoughts, behaviors and beliefs that get in your way have been developed."
That is Kolzene's jumping off point. Pitiful really.
Sunday, 14 June, 2009
Your homepage: Patrick McCleery http:Disable//sustainablecity.blogspot.com
Patrick McCleery
* Location: Austin: Texas: United States
http://www.technocracy.ca/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=Patrick
Occupation?
Brainwashed troll for a cult leader named Kolzene who is not connected in any way to actual Technocracy information but claims to be a witch and is involved in an occult application sometimes known as N.L.P. which is a form of mind control.
The internet rules.
Sunday, 14 June, 2009
Skip, if this Kolzene guy you keep talking about really has magical mind-control powers, wouldn't the sensible thing be to try to stay on his good side? Don't tug on Superman's cape.
Sunday, 14 June, 2009
It sounds like you guys are forming a cult around the original Technocracy Inc. material.
Sunday, 14 June, 2009
1995 article published in:
Technocracy Digest, 1st quarter 1996, No. 319 - An interesting information link: A new way article
From the official Technocracy Incorporated site archive.
Wednesday, 22 July, 2009
You guys may disagree with Skip's abrasive tactics, but he does state the FACTS, and being anti-Technocracy is the equivalent to being anti-human nature. Human nature is fine, though, the conditions of the price system results in most every human conflict throughout the history of human affairs. Do the research, and do a background check on each member of the orginal Technical Alliance, and then pass your opinion based judgments, ha, all of which are easily repudiated by the FACTS.
Wednesday, 30 September, 2009
Those Weaknesses of Technocracy are things that are irrelevant to the design of technocracy and the functions of a technate.
When you say it is impossible to create that much abundance because of the large variety of products that exist today. Well most of the products today have many brands and styles that make up that variety which would disapear in a technocracy because the optimum product would be the only one to be produce, ex.there would be no more classes and styles of cars because that would be useless. The best functioning automobile would be the one and only one to be produce in a tecnate.
And not to mention that most of the products out there are junk that we don't need for anything but to spend money on. Ex.toys 7 video games.
The employment in western societies is mostly in the service industry and the only reason those jobs exist is to give some purchasing power to the people so they could keep the price system going.
Technology can't solve all of our problems indeed, but most of them are resolved by technology and the ones not resolved by it conserning ideals and opinions can be resolved by the Social relations function in a technate.(I hope you know what I'm talking about,unless you only read wikipedia)
There are naturally scarce things like gold and diamonds, but why would we need them? In a technate those things have no value at all, and would only be use for their functions.
People are materially selfish because they have to in our society. In a technocracy even if people are materially selfish they can purchase whatever they whant like everyone else. And if they are not willing to work they will simply have their purchasing power removed.pretty much like in capitalism.
So, read a little more about technocracy(from official sources)before critizing it.
Saturday, 07 November, 2009
Anon moron said..........
''People are materially selfish because they have to in our society. In a technocracy even if people are materially selfish they can purchase whatever they whant like everyone else. And if they are not willing to work they will simply have their purchasing power removed.pretty much like in capitalism.'' End quote anon moron.
No, anon moron, that is not how it works. Energy accounting is not a reward and punishment system to carrot and stick people. Any of every citizen get energy accounting... as a right of citizenship.
You sound like a NET price system flunky or maybe TechCa disinformation person. You sure do not know anything about the Technocracy study Course and that scientific social design.
Some Basic facts
Because what you are saying is total control freak price system bullshit.
Have a nice day.
Saturday, 07 November, 2009
skip sievert is a kick. He just got his ass permanently banned from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive75#User:Skipsievert_talk_page_postings
Stoopid is as stoopid does.
Tuesday, 10 November, 2009
Not hard to spot Johnphos, a troll from Wikipedia For some reason he has a hard-on for certain avatar names on internet sites
Pretty obvious that Wiki sucks on many topics and is controlled by special factions. Johnphos being primo example of one of the dumber ones.
Just an obvious thing to be seen from following the link and reading the information. No shortage of nutcase trolls/stalkers or clowns on the internet.
Wednesday, 11 November, 2009
No shortage of price system flunkies either. Only looking as far as their nose takes them. I don't know how to take society as a whole when even so called 'educated' adults can't understand basic information. Also, constant misinformation from people like anon moron who sugar coat, or try to sell disconnected ideas as technocracy further express my disappointment.
Good verbal ass whippings are definitely needed. Keep it up skip.
Saturday, 20 March, 2010
Love your blog!
Check out my latest blog!
http://anarchadia.over-blog.com/
Saturday, 03 April, 2010
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Sunday, 29 May, 2011
Everyone I talk to and read who is reasonable agrees with you with the causes of America's decline. (Your recommendation of Griftopia by Matt Taibi may be a contribution to this diagnosis.) There is less agreement about what would be ideal. But that is a question for political philosophy. A political discussion has to do with how do you get there from here. Technocracy offers nothing on this political parameter.
Your
Sunday, 29 May, 2011
Ah, looking at your blog I see you are a typical american retard that is a left winger with political bullshit- libertarian progressive liberal type of clown.
So vigilante- your opinon is worth about the same as a open can of tuna fish left in the sun for a few days and nights.
In other words you seem like a typical american dildo mentality that is not open to any reasoned or new information about anything.
I bet you supported oBAMA.
cLOWN.
Sunday, 29 May, 2011
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Sunday, 29 May, 2011
Vigilante, Look back up the comments chain. On Sunday, 26 November, 2006, Skip Sievert said...
Technocracy is a non-political system.
There you have it.
Tuesday, 31 May, 2011
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Tuesday, 31 May, 2011
Who Is A Technocrat? - Wilton Ivie
Like many people that know nothing on this subject there is no shortage of people that make comments like the last one by Ethan Strong.
It is not a political movement.
It is not a political program.
It was never a political movement and not connected to any misuse of the word in relation to the concepts talked about here.
Just a simple look at the most basic information tells that.
Tuesday, 31 May, 2011
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Wednesday, 01 June, 2011
Quote from Mr. Strong.
''So perhaps the person who continues to perpetuate prejudicial comments as you "know nothing" is a person that considers themselves the all knowing master of a subject who can not allow anyone to formulate their own ideas or opinions or share knowledge or perhaps express themselves in a different light of the subject.''
Now you sound like a typical troll Ethan.
Complete with pathetic putdown and bob tailed reasoning.
The reason the ideas of the Technocracy design were done the way they were done you probably do not get and are not going to get.
There is no morality or ethical of fancy and maybe stupid stuff involved.
Like....
quote...
'Shall we say a Pluralistic/Eco-Socialistic Technocrat.'
By all means call yourself that if it makes you happy but keep in mind that you are a poser ripping off others ideas, and that, probably will contribute nothing, except confusing others.
But no doubt you currently fit in with just such people on NET E.o.S. European Organization of Sustainability .. and Zeit. and R.B.F. sites most of which are full of ego strutting no nothings, who speak in flowery terms but know shit from shinola.
Troll. Resource economics troll. Funny.
Wednesday, 01 June, 2011
1.Technocracy is viable because can eliminate scarcity using sciences, technate design, automatization, econophysics, high technology, robotics, unlimited control of information about products and services, extensive information about consumption and production and others...
2.Technocracy is viable because the working time can be dramatically reduced because the most jobs today are subject to replacement by hybrid automata and artificial intelligence
3. Technocracy is viable because the moviment need just a successful continental empirical experience to be replicated on a global scale.
4. Technocracy is viable because is not technology that solves all our problems, but the conceptual matrix of an Economy based on Energy Accounting can be empirically tangible, scientific and objective.
5.There is some artifacts naturally rares like minerals and unique works of art, but the quartz for example is already manufactured by science. Technocrats do not want to "pasteurize" the reality, but garantee that everyone has Access to these unique products.
6.The humans are not materially selfish, rather, the motivation of the work is linked to cognition and behavior that leads to positive reinforcement: getting pleasure and thrust of life. A human being is happier to be something when can assign positive values of self-fulfillment in work.
Friday, 19 October, 2012
Taiguara Villela, very thoughtful post.
Its viable alternative.
A technate idea can work.
Saturday, 20 October, 2012
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